Forum:A question for the community, Inviting new users?
Hi all :) I have noticed that there is no "reaching out" to random IP contributors. Some of these contributors, while a little rough perhaps, have pointed out some decent things on the wiki. I was wondering why, first of all- no one really invites them, and second of all- Is it productive? I have endeavored to invite anyone who adds decent content (however rough) to join the community. I do not want just the ones who get reverted to get a "warned user" template on their talk page. I, personally, think that those who add to this wiki also deserve a template with an invite. This is my current template: Your recent contributions have been noticed by Registered Users of the community. Thank you for your contributions. If you like, you can create a User Name and join our awesome community. Either way, feel free to continue improving this wiki :) 21:10, March 5, 2011 (UTC) What does everyone think? Comments/Criticism/Sage advice Every contributor is given a Welcome Message from an Admin after their first edit. This welcome message offers them the chance to register and join the community. As for personal welcomes, I have tried on several occasions to encourage joining, but to no avail. Fell free to approach any new contributor you feel the need to. Many people just want to put in their $0.02 and go. Good luck with the recruiting drive though :) -- 21:33, March 5, 2011 (UTC) <-- Don't you mean $0.01? (economy considerations) I say good, but minus the happy face. It looks false and may be slightly overkill. IMO anyway. 02:20, March 6, 2011 (UTC) WHOA IM NOT LOGGED IN. This was by GnarlyToaster. Note taken, thanks. 02:24, March 6, 2011 (UTC) I agree with Veg. The automated system welcomes them and encourages them to make an account. and I'm sure they know that their edits have been noticed, as more than 80% of the time they get rolled back anyway. 02:43, March 6, 2011 (UTC) Yes, I have noticed the 80% mortality rate as well. I think I approach it a little differently. Look at the history on S&S Orion at the original post of 24.138.190.174. It screams of Undo. Yet, if taken the time, we can actually keep the content in a usable form. Anyway, I do understand that an automated system welcomes them. And I also think that it is not a good "reach out", as is getting their edits rolled back. It is just my thoughts and wanted the community to give me input. It might be fruitless anyway LOL. And I don't mind any criticism. 02:57, March 6, 2011 (UTC) i will admit i did not join/add to this wiki until after the game was released. before that i was puttering with fallout 3 wiki after mothership zeta was released and i discovered wikis were better, not to mention more entertaining, than walkthroughs. i joined borderlands and have watched it since. the 80% revert rate above is, i believe, based on recent events as on the whole UC's are responsible for 80+% of the proof reading and at least 25% of new content plus upwards of 90% of recent events (blog readers, and gbx forumites). i have received intimations from wikia that marketing a wiki is important to them, and by extension me, so i take this seriously. if no one objects i can make iatbr the official "greeter" and design a userbox to the effect of "join us" (with requisite undertones of mst3k & the evil dead) until such time as he would like to step down. im reminded of sinisternobody whom i made an account for because he/she could not register at work. i expected a surge after christmas and got it late but there actually should/could be a constant/persistent membership drive. 14:20, March 6, 2011 (UTC) :I for one am not opposed to Best Robot being the "greeter". If its that important, We could even have the template given to trusted contributors( Rollbackers and/or other long term RC's who wanted it) who could give the welcome message to anyone who they feel has contributed something of value. Just a thought. 15:34, March 6, 2011 (UTC) ::My point of view is that when a user is anonymous, he is making it blatantly clear he does not really want to join the community. I think you should just focus your efforts on new, but registered, users. Besides, there is nothing to gain trying to force someone on the wiki if he is not interest. ::To be honest, I think we should stop reverting every newbie's edits just because they don't respect manual of style, but actually take the time to thank them for their edit, and correct their grammar. I know this wiki has a good amount of crap put into it, when your first edit is reverted with no reason given, people move on to a more welcoming place. The easiest way to get more users is to not chase away the new ones. Happypal 16:31, March 6, 2011 (UTC) :ty happy. i neglected to state that revert means a users edit is erased and should only be used if the edit is wrong (and only rolled back if vandalism). if they are wrong please state why in the summary or/and go to their page (User_talk:UC/RC) and say something. if they are not wrong roll up your sleeves and edit! one of our best editors suffered through a severe trolling (we all did, really) and never recovered; began treating people (i am assured by Fry that editors are, in fact, people and not sims) with less than standard courtesy. this may have set a poor example for you new kids on the block. think of it as leaving a tip if you will. sure it costs you some time but the karma gained is worth more (trust me on this one troopers). 17:14, March 6, 2011 (UTC) Well, I appreciate all the input and I am deeply honored at your proposal Dr.F. However, I cannot be the only greeter if there really is a need for such a position. I understand what happy is saying. But I slightly disagree, in that, if an IP user makes a few decent edits, then a warm welcome should be extended to reiterate the auto invite. I propose that a policy be adapted and that almost any user can apply to become a greeter under such policy. That being said, until such a time, Dr. F is the most correct. If you Undo an IP user you should definitely have a reason and tell that person why as well as leave a detailed description in the summary. Giving a link to recent wiki activity is also good so they can read the summaries. Sorry, I have to fly to work now. Thanks all for the great input. P.S. I can think of many Users on here that would be awesome greeters. Hat tip to veg :o EDIT: sig, thanks dr.f --> 20:52, March 6, 2011 (UTC) - iatbr :but, they were wise enough not to volunteer themselves. im not saying anyone is getting exclusive rights to invite users. im saying that iatbr has stepped up and i recogniz/se. I dont know if this can be done, but I think the Admin welcome message should/could include links to The polices page and/or edit help pages. I know it took me a while to know those pages were there. I think some people might be put off by their lack of knowledge of how to edit / contribute. I cant tell you how many people i have seen, including myself at first, that dont know how to start their posts after the preload content on a forum page or even sign their posts. It is confusing if you dont know how. Some people might not want to look stupid and ask, so they give up or dont come back because someone yelled at them. I try to explain what to do next time they edit, rather then scold them. I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, even vandals, only warning them the first time. I know it can be frustrating to keep fixing the same problems over and over again, but if we care about the community, as DR.F says it will come back to us in some way. 22:44, March 6, 2011 (UTC) :Now that^ seems like a good idea to me. Maybe even setting up some kind of beginner's guide and linking to it in the introductory message. 23:04, March 6, 2011 (UTC) :::^ Yes , that is exactly what I was trying to say. 23:07, March 6, 2011 (UTC) There are a lot of good points here, and i would like to contribute my $0.02 to the discussion as well. First impressions do make a lot of difference on a new user's impression of a wiki and the community (and thus whether they will come back to it in the future). I recently had an experience on CallofDuty Wiki wherein a user didn't pay proper attention to the edit history, and thinking I had vandalized a page (when in fact I had removed the vandalism and left a proper summary of what I had done and why) subsequently slapped a vandal template on my user page with no explanation or consideration for the fact that I was a new user on the wiki. Needless to say I was not pleased, and the initial impression of that wiki was a very negative one, even on account of only one experience; though an admin was eventually able to resolve the issue after I contacted one, the experience was still not a welcoming one. Point in case: the BL Wiki community is both more attentive and far more welcoming to new users, registered and unregistered alike (as long as Nagy doesn't scare the newbies.... well at least not too much than necessary :) 22:49, March 6, 2011 (UTC) Veg posted while I was typing, and I think he illustrates my point better than I do. 22:51, March 6, 2011 (UTC) veg is male. : I think he ment HERE not HER. -- 23:12, March 6, 2011 (UTC) : typo fixed 23:27, March 6, 2011 (UTC) ::: :::: Yes, even just linking that to the Welcome Message with a bullet point that says something like" here is a guide to help get you sarted or something similar might help. Assuming it gets read. -- 23:43, March 6, 2011 (UTC) I wouldn't point new users too soon to any manual of style/policies page, that would just scare them off/make them gripe and move on. Rather, let new user stay for a while, and after 50+ edits, we now they like the wiki and are ready to make efforts to make it better, to nudge into more professional writing. Happypal 07:56, March 7, 2011 (UTC) :link is from help under community =>top menu. moved community link to getting started vice portal (which was empty). 18:07, March 8, 2011 (UTC) I would like to expand on my previous (getting ready for work) edit. I was too honored not to reply, however speedily. I meant that I cannot be the only greeter in good faith to new users since I am not on enough. I, of course, would accept any title bestowed upon me. But I actually think (through 10 hours of work) the term, new user "Liaison" would better describe the position I feel should be a new staff category. I have a heart for new users (being fairly new myself) and a deep respect for users who can, "easy as pie", come up with content that stands up to this wiki's high standards. Many times there is a gap in the bridge between the two. That is the gap I wish to address. And yes, I am not wise enough not to volunteer. Dr.F has a way of bestowing work, I see No matter what happens, I will always have a heart for new users and try and bridge that gap as "Best" I can. I do, however, think that if we can adopt a policy and create a new staff position, that it might spread to other wiki's who might be having problems with new user relations. Note to Skeve: The first few edits I made on this wiki were rough on me LOL. It was only through my tenacity that I discovered how to resolve being reverted. That said, I was not completely "thrown to the wolves". I do love this wiki community and think that it is the best (although I have no experience on any others). Note to Happy: I think a nudge should be done sooner, since multiple reverts might scare them off faster than a link. General note: most of the content in wiki help doesn't help too much until you experience wiki a bit before reading it. A human interface (liaison) is much preferred and, to be fair, it should be as close to 24/7 as possible. 09:42, March 7, 2011 (UTC) :Well, the idea was that we stop reverting every non-perfect post... Happypal 10:20, March 7, 2011 (UTC) Ahh, I see... I'm still kinda dazed at Dr.F from this morning (2nd shift). Well if anything came out of this post, perhaps that is the best thing so far. EDIT: (sry tired) I originally posted this for 2 reasons: 1 because I didn't know if there was any policy on what I was doing, and 2 to make people think about how quick and easy the UNDO button is without follow up. 10:39, March 7, 2011 (UTC) Throwing in my dos pesos in the situation has anyone perhaps thaught of the buddy system. Where semi experienced edditors are randomly assighned to hold the hands of people who are new.Tbone0923 22:07, March 9, 2011 (UTC) I think that would be quite a good idea, however some may think that a little strange Thanks for pointing that out. The random thing probably won't work since this is an unofficial activity by individual members of the community (I'm working on defining it all, please be patient for the forum). In order to "reach out", there has to be a volunteer. The automated message gives contact to an admin, but that can be followed up on by anyone willing to help. This is actually already done by people like Veg. We definitely don't want to jump on anyone so there should be individual discretion. 10:31, March 10, 2011 (UTC) The new forum is posted here and follow up opinions are also located on Dr.F's page here. More input is needed on tools and such. 08:56, March 12, 2011 (UTC)